“It's not for someone who doesn't work well with others; you look after your colleagues here. Some of the positions that earn high wages at Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton include associate, lawyer, project attorney, and word processing supervisor. Cleary Gottlieb has been engaged in several cases involving the restructuring of sovereign debt. The two promotions in London is the highest since 2012. Cleary recently advised the Qatar Investment Authority on its acquisition by its subsidiary of a stake in Adani Electricity Mumbai. Yet trainees in Cleary’s London base described it as “the best of all worlds, you don’t have to sacrifice personality to work here.” Once upon a time, in fact, Friendly was legitimately this firm’s middle name – Henry Friendly was one of the founders of Cleary, Gottlieb, Friendly, & Cox. Counseled Crédit Lyonnais in its €19.5 billion acquisition by Crédit Agricole SA in December 2002. " These include: "Much of Cleary Gottlieb's success in sovereign debt," according to Reuters, "is based on the work of partner Lee Buchheit, who has led restructuring negotiations for 20 countries." One of those partners was Henry Friendly, whose name was removed from the firm's name after he was appointed as a judge on the United States Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit in 1959. Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton Salaries By Job Title. It was the first U.S. firm qualified to practice law in Japan, and it has represented governments throughout Latin Ameri… Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP is a leading international law firm with offices located in major financial centers around the world, widely recognized for its expertise in finance and mergers and acquisitions and for its tax, regulatory and litigation practice. The firm currently has additional offices in Washington, D.C., Hong Kong, Beijing, London, Rome, Milan, Brussels, Moscow, Frankfurt, Cologne, Paris, Buenos Aires, São Paulo, Abu Dhabi, and Seoul. Training opportunitiesWe do not believe in a ‘one size fits all’ training solution. The firm hosts diversity talks and outreach programmes to keep the subject “at the forefront of everyone’s minds. Arriving at an “intellectually rigorous place” can be “a bit intimidating at first,” but our sources clarified that “the culture is relaxed. Firm Profile > Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton > London, England. They’re stratospherically intelligent!” Cleary clearly looks in certain places to find boffins: “Almost exclusively from private schools. Debt capital markets. Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton has unveiled its latest round of partner promotion, with two making the grade in London. 665 were here.  Television producer Doug Liman has cited the firm as an inspiration for the T.V. Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton’s distinguishing features are its ‘international work and headline-grabbing sovereign deals’. • UCL It can all change very quickly!”. Clearly handles corporate governance and helps clients find new acquisition targets.” Trainees in a corporate seat get to draft business development articles and client alerts. Welcome to the Careers Center for Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP. It might sound kitsch, but it’s true!” The seat allocation process is “very informal. Ambassador and senior diplomat George W. Ball, Judge Henry Friendly, and Melvin Steen. It's also possible to apply directly for a vac scheme, but graduate recruitment partner Richard Sultman admits this route is “harder,” with partner Andrew Shutter chiming in to tell us “less than 5% of applicants can expect to get onto the vac scheme without attending an open day.”. Lawyers were depending on my analysis for their transactions. When you think of New York’s international white shoe elite – and Cleary are very much one of them – it’s unlikely that ‘friendly’ will be the first word in your mind. Current notable attorneys include former two-time SEC general counsel David M. Becker; former president of the New York City Bar Association Evan A. Davis; former SEC general counsel Giovanni Prezioso; a former FDIC general counsel; former Acting U.S. The Washington office is located at 2112 Pennsylvania Avenue, five blocks northwest of the White House.. Seat options: M&A, capital markets, finance, competition, disputes, IP, fin reg, employment, funds, and tax. In 2012, international counsel to Greece in a liability management exercise, its financing transactions with the European Financial Stability Facility which involve debt facilities in excess of €150 billion as well as other transactions, such as the €35 billion securities purchase transaction between Greece and the European Central Bank. Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP is proud to participate in the 2020 Associates' Campaign in support of The Legal Aid Society's Civil Practice! Work experienceThe firm’s London office offers around 40 vacation places each year across four schemes: one in winter, one in spring, and two in summer. In addition, Cleary attorneys have at various times taken controversial positions in front of U.S. courts. Advised Argentina in the 2005 restructuring of its $81.8 billion global debt, and in 2012 it represented Greece in the largest ever sovereign-debt restructuring and the largest ever bond exchange. In 2017, represented The Dow Chemical Company on the antitrust aspects of its $130 billion merger of equals with DuPont, the third-largest ever. In 2014, represented Russia in the case of, In 2014, retained by the government of Puerto Rico, to help in the restructuring of its $72 billion public debt. I don’t turn my work phone off when I sleep.”Some argued this drive to grind is “self-led. Attorneys for the Southern District of New York Lev L. Dassin and Joon Kim; and capital markets lawyer Leslie N. Silverman. CLEARY GOTTLIEB STEEN & HAMILTON LLP - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual … University law careers fairs 2019• University of Bristol " Buchheit was a lead author of a 2013 Brookings committee report that proposed changes in the approach to sovereign debt, including the collective action clause. Trainees told us they “felt really, really comfortable” during their time as vac schemers and praised the firm's efforts on the social side, which include organised activities like ping-pong outings and cookery classes. Melvin Steen was among the founding partners. series Suits. It employs over 1,200 lawyers worldwide. Participants are paid £500 a week – the highest of any firm we've come across. As with M&A, Cleary’s finance practice sees a lot of sovereign clients – recently helping the Government of Barbados put together its $6.7 billion debt restructuring. The M&A team represents a mix of private equity and sovereign clients – trainees were keen to let us know that “aside from them being really bloody big, we don’t have a typical client type.” Wells Fargo, BNP Paribas, Goldman Sachs… the common theme is big money. Cleary Gottlieb is a leading international law firm, with 16 offices located in major financial centers around the world, that has helped shape the globalization of the legal profession for more than 70 years. • Exeter University You chat with HR at the halfway point of your seat and give them a list of where you’d want to go next and why.”There are no compulsory seats, though almost all trainees do one of capital markets, finance or M&A. Trainees are ‘assigned substantive tasks’ and are ‘brought on…  It was the first U.S. firm qualified to practice law in Japan, and it has represented governments throughout Latin America.. Trainees in one seat may be “flexed” to help out on a matter in another department, “getting insights into a practice area without even sitting there.” It’s also common for trainees to “continue matters from your first seat through your entire training contract, from various angles. “Here in Clearyland,capital markets isn’t a siloed team,”trainees said. The ’emphasis is on learning on the job’, although there are occasional ‘formal training sessions for particular hot topics’. Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP is a law firm. Please browse all of our available job and career opportunities. • LSE High-achieving Russell Group universities tend to supply the rest; some felt this “seems unfair” but rationalised the situation by pointing out that “this salary package attracts a lot of applicants from top unis, so the applications are skewed.” The pay package certainly is impressive – Cleary once boasted the highest NQ salary at £120,000, though a handful of firms have since outdone them. Alumni of Cleary Gottlieb include: Secretary of the Treasury Robert Rubin; a U.S. Supreme Court Justice; a President of the U.N. General Assembly; former RNC Chairman Michael Steele; Harvard Law School professor David Kennedy; Yale Law School professor Amy Chua; author Susan Cain; U.S. National Security Council Director for Russia; Belgium's Ambassador to the United States; Darren Walker, President of the Ford Foundation; and Renaud Laplanche, founder of Lending Club; David W. Leebron, President, Rice University; Jessica Neuwirth, Founder and Co-President, ERA Coalition.. Oxbridge alumni are about 70% of each intake.” At the time of our calls, the split was 60% Oxbridge and from September 2020 it will be 52%. By recruiting 10–15 trainees each year, we are able to offer training that is tailored to each trainee’s interests, experience and aptitudes. Cleary Gottlieb is a pioneer in globalising the legal profession. “It’s common for people here to have an international background or at least an interest,” we heard. "It’s important to want to practise law and want to practise it at Cleary. Cleary offers 48 vac scheme places each year, 12 for two weeks on the winter and spring schemes as well as 24 across the two summer schemes. Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP (known as Cleary Gottlieb) is an international white shoe law firm headquartered at One Liberty Plaza in New York City. "Over the past three decades," noted a 2012 Reuters report, "the firm has become the go-to legal adviser for countries" in financial difficulties. “I met one candidate at an open day who knew all about a particular piece of litigation we'd done in New York regarding the recovery of stolen art,” says Shutter. To wrap up the day, there's a drinks event that “gives us a chance to see the candidates as individuals and how they interact with the other applicants,” says Shutter. As with general seat allocation, trainees felt the secondment process was “organic” and allows you to “chase the opportunities and lifestyle that are most exciting for you. Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton, an international law firm Disambiguation page providing links to topics that could be referred to by the same search term This disambiguation page lists articles associated with the title Cleary . It’s a more organic way of learning.” A vast international network combined with a “flexible” training contract gives trainees “a bird’s eye view of the entire market,”while the ability to move around the firm gave sources the impression of “making a rich and unique contribution to Cleary from day one. Cleary Gottlieb is a leading international law firm, with 16 offices located in major financial centers around the world, that has helped shape the globalization of the legal profession for more than 70 years. Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton may be a big cheese in the Big Apple, but the law firm also has made a name for itself in the international arena. “We’re academics, so we want to take the extra time.”. The best bet for landing a place is applying for a spot on one of the firm's assessment days, which involves submitting a cover letter and CV online. Advised Google in its acquisition of Motorola Mobility. Massive deals mean trainees typically get stuck into “unglamorous”due diligence. Working for the Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP Working experience at Cleary Gottlieb is in keeping with its reputation of being one of the world's top law firms. • Oxford University, UK partners/solicitors/trainees: 19/61/21. While long known as a dominant player in the international and corporate business world, Cleary has built out litigation capabilities that have strengthened and expanded the full suite of resources it offers clients. A contentious competition seat offers trainees the “full spectrum of restrictive agreements and competition policy” to soak up. There’s a respectable atmosphere, but Cleary needs to do more, especially on the social mobility front.”We only heard good things about the firm’s pro bono efforts: a coordinator connects trainees with “small ad-hoc matters in the UK, or bigger ones in the US and worldwide.” Local projects include volunteering at a women’s legal clinic and helping refugees apply for resettlement; longer-term matters, such as a project surveying the persecution of the LGBTQ+ community in the Caribbean, look to make “massive changes.” Cleary is “enthusiastic”for traineesto bring their own pro bono causes to the table too. In this department it feels like you’re really connected to the world and how it operates,”one trainee told us. Buchheit’s "academic papers, books and legal briefs over the past three decades fill much of the void where no formal law exists." The Chambers USA Guide gave Cleary Gottlieb the Chambers & Partners' inaugural International Law Firm of the Year award in 2016. The firm has also promoted three associates to counsel. We’re all down to earth.” Cleary prefers trainees to study the GDL and LPC together at University of Law, to break the ice before the training contract kicks off. Cravath, Swaine & Moore LLP. A free inside look at Cleary Gottlieb salary trends based on 385 salaries wages for 100 jobs at Cleary Gottlieb. In 2003, advised Deutsche Telekom in its €2.3 billion bond offer. She represents public and private companies, their boards and officers, global financial institutions, and funds in a broad range of critical company matters in federal and state courts around the country, as well as in related regulatory matters. Legal Business ranked Cleary as its Law Firm of the Year in 2013. The entity is now known as LCL (Le Crédit Lyonnais). In 2012, provided legal counsel to T-Mobile US and Deutsche Telekom in connection with T-Mobile US's merger with Sprint Corporation. Cleary’s team handles US, European and post-Brexit UK work, “advising companies when they’re being investigated and generally on how to comply with government regulations.” The group also tackles merger controls working “closely with the M&A department.” Huge clients like Disney, Coca-Cola and Sony call on Cleary, and the firm advised Louis Vuitton on the global competition aspects of its luxury industry record $16.2 billion acquisition of Tiffany. That was the level of responsibility I was looking for.” Another added: “The firm makes sure you do a considerable amount of what you're interested in. Hogan Lovells International LLP. The firm has promoted seven male associates to its partnership this year, with the majority in the US. It’s common to qualify into more than one department: “There’s a lot of freedom. Someone once qualified into litigation and M&A, which is as varied as it can get!” All our interviewees looked to “stick with Cleary for several years,” but noted that many tend to head for pastures new at senior associate level “as the firm doesn’t make many homegrown partners.” In 2020, Cleary kept on ten of its 13 spring qualifiers. Law360 recognized Cleary in its "Global 20" List of Preeminent Global Law Firms, 2014. “By the time I left, I'd met at least half of the lawyers here, whereas at other firms I only got to know a handful,” shared one source. “We’ve worked on so many major refinancings and restructurings throughout history, and the seat has a big geopolitical element to it. The programme's not all work and no play. In 2011, represented the Chinese company Sichuan Hongda Group in its $3 billion investment in Tanzania, a joint venture with Tanzania's National Development Corporation (NDC) that constituted the largest investment venture in East Africa to date. • Trinity College Dublin If it sounds like there’s a lot going on at Cleary, news that trainees have “completely unpredictable hours” won’t come as a surprise.Supervisors are tasked with supplying trainees with a minimum of seven billable hours a day, but the longest we heard was 70 hours in one week; this source confirmed “that’s definitely not a regular deal,”and trainees often head home between 7 and 8.30pm, but many felt “a need to be responsive 24/7. Cleary earned praise from interviewees for training contract management during the coronavirus crisis: “The firm’s infrastructure is robust and there's been no shortage of ongoing training.". Trainees can expect to be thrown in at the deep end and will be expected to work long hours (long hours at firms like Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton mean very long hours. “If you want a more traditional experience,” affirms Shutter, “you should probably look at other firms.”, 2 London Wall Place, London, EC2Y 5AU Website www.clearygottlieb.com, Firm profilePioneers in the globalisation of the legal profession, Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP is a leading international law firm with 16 integrated offices located in major financial and political centres around the world. Firm Profile > Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton > New York, United States. Salaries posted anonymously by Cleary Gottlieb employees. Arthur Kohn Owner, Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP Greater New York City Area 300 connections Meredith Kotler, Partner at Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP, focuses her practice on securities, shareholder, and commercial litigation. Latham & Watkins. The elections will bring the firm’s total worldwide partners to 195 and counsel to 57. According to Richard Sultman, the vac scheme aims to provide a “real-world experience. You get there, have a weekend to get your bearings, then you’re straight in on Monday morning and should expect to be busy.”, Though Cleary does run formal training opportunities and lunchtime practice area presentations, interviewees felt “the biggest part of our training is the incredible work we get to see as trainees. As for fair Blighty, the team in London earns Chambers UK rankings for high-end private equity buyouts, capital markets, banking litigation, competition and big-ticket corporate – all of which often have a strong international dimension. Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP | 37 197 abonnés sur LinkedIn. The team also works on acquisitions and deals that “aren’t all pure M&A in the conventional sense”– examples include internal restructurings, asset disposals and buyouts, as well as “housekeeping and advisory work. • Kings College London Mayer … About Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP Cleary is a leading global law firm, with offices on four continents and an unparalleled reputation for groundbreaking work. So, we encourage our trainees to take responsibility as soon as they are ready to do so. “What we really look for are people who have shown that they are obviously academic, but also curious and intellectually brave and courageous and up for the challenge of doing something different to the usual 'conveyor belt' approach,” shares Shutter. Main areas of workCore areas of practice in London are mergers and acquisitions, financing and restructuring, capital markets, international litigation and arbitration, and competition. Consistent with the vision of its founders, Cleary remains committed to openness, diversity, individuality and collaboration. Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLC Paveletskaya Square 2/3 Moscow 115054, Russia +7 495 660 8500. SECTOR. From “intellectual”and “academically curious”to “wicked smart,” interviewees had a clear idea of who fits in at Cleary. “At least half the most recent intake has had a lot of foreign exposure, lived abroad, or have come from overseas.” Trainees loved their internationally diverse cohort: “You’re exposed to different cultures and perspectives, which has really opened my eyes to how the world operates. Issuer counsel to the Government of Malaysia in its $750 million eurobond offering in 2002. Cleary Wins Two Law360 2020 Practice Group of the Year Awards NEWS Cleary Wins Two LawWorks 2020 Pro Bono Awards NEWS American Tower in $1.7 Billion Offering NEWS Cleary Ranked Top 10 in 2020 GRR 100 PUBLICATION COVID-19 Resource Center PUBLICATION Read Cleary’s Latest Blog Posts PUBLICATION Going Public: A Guide to U.S. IPOs PUBLICATION Capital markets: debt offerings. Some of the notable attorneys who have practiced at Cleary, Gottlieb, Steen & Hamilton LLP include U.N. From a total of 1,500 applicants, around 120 are called in for the assessment day. 76 reviews from Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP employees about Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP culture, salaries, benefits, work-life balance, management, job security, and more. Many trainees had been ‘impressed by the professionalism and expertise of the lawyers encountered on the vacation scheme’ and were comforted that ‘the people are very driven and smart but not arrogant’. Don't apply if you have sharp elbows.”, Finally, consider this tip from an insider: “If you’re the kind of person who feels uncomfortable taking your own initiative, it’s probably better for you to go to a more structured training programme.” In other words, Cleary is not a place for those who want to float along or be closely managed. In 2012, international counsel to The Hellenic Republic in connection with its invitation, launched on February 24, relating to approximately €206 billion face amount of Greek bonds held by private sector holders, the largest ever sovereign debt restructuring and the largest ever bond exchange. The buzzword at Cleary was “flex”– trainees used it as a summary for “freedom, flexibility and independent thought” at the firm. What's more, it's important for applicants to come across as “bright, confident and interesting” during their dealings with the firm. Other ranked firms. Since 1946, its lawyers and staff have worked across practices, industries, jurisdictions and continents to provide clients with simple, actionable approaches to their most complex legal and business challenges. Cleary recruits nearly all of its trainees through its vacation scheme. The deadline for spring and summer vacation scheme applications is 31st January. Seat supervisors earned praise for “getting really involved in trainees’ professional development and making sure everyone feels part of the Cleary family. The direct-to-training-contract application route is the riskier one, according to our sources, and involves a number of interviews. Chambers Student, the student’s companion to the legal profession, gives the truth about law firms and the Bar. Find out what works well at Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP from the people who know best. Cleary takes diversity and inclusion totally seriously.” However, some diverse trainees felt that “though the firm isn’t putting barriers up, they’re also not leading the way. You have to find a way to show that.” Shutter tells us: “It's very impressive when people have done their research and can show that they really understand Cleary.”, This advice goes for anyone applying, no matter the route they take. Other benefits25 days’ holiday, fitness subsidy, health screening, private health insurance, life insurance of twice annual salary, long-term disability insurance, critical illness insurance, dental insurance, employee assistance programme, emergency backup care, cycle to work scheme and subsidised staff restaurant. Cleary Gottlieb is a pioneer in globalizing the legal profession. I found that very impressive.”. In 2007, legal adviser to T-Mobile in its $2.4 billion merger with SunCom Wireless. Insiders revealed that Cleary recently trialled AI software to streamline the process, “which can work really well, but you’ve still got to read everything yourself!”The seat can also involve legal research, taking call notes, drafting disclosure and some types of agreements, and work on annual reports. Vault ranked Cleary Gottlieb as the #8 Best Law Firm in 2016, based on prestige to work for from branche-internal surveys. , United States Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit, Learn how and when to remove this template message, List of largest United States-based law firms by profits per partner, "Cleary Gottlieb Elects Michael Gerstenzang Managing Partner - Cleary Gottlieb", "The Lawyer Global100 2006 - Top 100 profile", "Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP - Our Offices - Washington", "David W. Leebron, President, Rice University", "Argentina debt battle puts NY law firm in spotlight", "Cleary and DLA act on Sichuan Hongda's $3bn African energy deal", "AT&T/T-Mobile merger shifts to Washington", "FG HEMISPHERE ASSOCIATES LLC v. RÉPUBLIQUE DU CONGO", "OPINION OF CLEARY GOTTLIEB STEEN & HAMILTON LLP", "Some law firms to lose out in Google-Motorola deal", "Merged T-Mobile USA, MetroPCS to face tech challenges", "Cleary Gottlieb called in on Greek debt negotiations", "Arrest of Russian Opposition Leader Raises Tough Questions for Country's Legal System", "Russia Loses Major Law Suit In Oligarch Oil Case", "Historic $50B Yukos Awards Overturned By Hague Court - Law360", "Puerto Rico Spends More Than $60 Million on Debt Restructuring", "4 Firms Team Up To Lead Dow, DuPont In Megamerger", "Fox Says Regulatory Risk Could Delay, Derail Any Comcast Bid", "19 Law Firms Get Merger Call for $146 Billion Sprint, T-Mobile Deal", "Global 20: Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton", "Vault.com-Best Law companies to work for-Vault Law 100", "Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP - New York - Law Firm Profile - Chambers USA 2016", "Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP|Company Rankings|Vault.com", "Interview with Doug Limon of "Suits" on USA Network - Primetime TV Show Articles From The TV MegaSite", "Cleary Sanctioned for Trying to Interfere With Testimony", "Judges take harder line against lawyer misconduct", "Vultures: the country spent on lawyers about $ 400 million", "Argentina's comments put U.S. lawyers in awkward spot", "Who to blame for Argentina's disastrous default? “…impressed by the people here. The New York office is situated in One Liberty Plaza, across the street from the World Trade Center site. In 2018, advised on the $146 Billion Sprint T-Mobile merger. “It adds to the feeling of being a global citizen at Cleary.” When not advising entire countries, the team also works on leveraged finance deals, corporate restructurings and accessions for corporates; they recently represented the Eurasian Resources Group in a $7 billion series of financing transactions. Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP (known as Cleary Gottlieb) is an international white shoe law firm headquartered at One Liberty Plaza in New York City. , * In 2016, the website Vault.com ranked Cleary Gottlieb #3 for International Practice and #9 overall in its "Vault Law 100" list. “That's the kind of detailed interest we're looking for.”. US firms with a relatively large trainee intake (more than 10 pa): Vacation scheme deadlines (2021): 1 October 2020. Usually referred to as Cleary Gottlieb, Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP is an international law firm, positioned as one inclusive partnership. The firm operates as a single global partnership. "You’re really connected to the world and how it operates.". “My cases have come with experiences that are harder to get on client matters and they’ve developed me hugely, personally and professionally,”one said. An “open channel”between trainees and HR from the start of the training contract about qualification and “what’s expected of you”means that the process is “informal and organic.”At the end of April, each trainee has a discussion with HR about where they’d like to qualify, which is taken into consideration along with business need. Interviewees felt like “a valued addition to the team on each project,”suggesting “you can really take ownership of what you do.”On advisory matters, trainees conduct research on discrete areas of law and prepare memos that get passed on to clients. We don't offer synthetic work; it will be real.” And indeed, one trainee told us: “At my other vac schemes, there were times when I was asked to read a textbook for a week or just sit in the Royal Courts of Justice watching a trial, but here I did work that was actually substantial. Aims to provide a “ real-world experience we 've come across that is on par with the best elsewhere with! Been engaged in several cases involving the restructuring of sovereign debt boffins: “ there s! Two promotions in London its `` Global 20 '' List of Preeminent Global law firms and the Bar of! For Cleary Gottlieb senior diplomat George W. Ball, Judge Henry Friendly and. Llc Paveletskaya Square 2/3 Moscow 115054, Russia +7 495 660 8500 the Southern District of York! ” trainees said in 2016, based on 385 salaries wages for 100 jobs at Cleary Steen... We encourage our trainees to take responsibility as soon as they are ready to do so billion. On top of what ’ s important to want to practise it at,... 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